Info Desperately Needed!!!

[Mojo]

[color=#000080]Hi,

I am looking for stories/incidents relating to any searches where search dogs have been used and where there any positive or negative experiences they would like to share?

I am not a dog owner and know even less, so please bear with me if I sound stupid. Cheshire is currently looking into possibilities of setting up a dog team but this is in the future and I need some convincing in the meantime.

Looking forward to hearing from you

Mojo

[Daryl]

Hi Mojo

I have stories of where dogs in our team have found people alive, found people deceased and found articles that have lead to a person being found.

There was a recent search where we were looking for a psychiactric patient that had absconded from hospital, we were searching the grounds of the hospital. During our search we were in a dense woodland nearby where the dog indicated a find.

We had managed to find a lost disorientated member of the public that had been in a fight and had run off, resulting in him getting lost in the woods.

Is this the sort of thing you were looking for

[Deborah]

I am a "new" member to S & R and also to working a search dog. One of the things that has taken me a while to realise is that the value of a good search dog is in them telling you there is no one there as much as in them alerting when they have found someone. Its about being able to return to control and trusting your dogs ability to be able to say you have covered a sector and your dog has not indicated. The dogs are only one of many resources available to control but I think not having that resource can limit the service a search team can provide. If you would like to come and visit one of the teams we are a friendly lot and would gladly show you how we train and chat over the issues. Deb (Norfolk)

[Mojo]

Hi Deb

Thank you so much. It's a bit difficult as I am one of two Search Managers here in Cheshire and we have resources upon resoures to spare and we work so close to our Polsa's it's frightening at times. I have recently had a weird experience whilst on a week long search in a local NT Parkland. There were more than sufficent dogs and handlers out, not from ALSAR I may quickly add, and the Misper was located approx half a mile from the RVP. This area was covered 4 times but no dog had indicated anything so unfortunately the man was missed

I'd love to visit somewhere where I could actively see a working dog for myself, desperately so it's becoming an obsession.

I'm going to look at the stuff Darryl said about. But I am determined to understand further a learn from you guy's and gal's - the professional's!!!

"Knowledge dispurses fear."

Jo

[Daryl]

Hi Mojo

I would suggest comming down to an LSDogs assessment day to observe might be a good idea. In addition you are more than welcome to come to any of our training sessions.

I must admit that I am a little concerned that 4 dogs did not find your MISPER - having said that there are limitations to all types of SAR Resource - whether that be to foggy to fly a helicopter, to dense to search on foot etc etc.

Feel free to PM me if any of the above offers seem suitable.

[Fedelia]

Unfortuntely some people train to get to the rescueteam just becouse it's 'cool', and they might not be so ready as they think.
That doesent mean the dogs are not good - they probably are - the question is, that could they be even better.
In one group i've trained with i've noticed that problem - there might for example be working rescuedog that has never practiced with 'grazy' persons, kickin'n'screaming persons, crying persons, walking persons, and sometimes even the most basic persons are not generalized to the dog: someone just standing around in a plain open area wanting to be found. So often there are hidden persons instead, when practicing.

So often is forgotten that different persons have to be generalized to the dog. If not, they might not signal becouse their not sure if tis allowed to signal.

[Robert Bradley]

I just had to add something to this debate.

(Great site, by the way, well done - Daryl(?))

As the example given shows, you have to be very careful in judging negative results in search.
As Daryl states ALL search resources have their limitations, and all search resources are capable of missing. The sweep width experiments carried out in the States recently for foot searchers and previous sweep width experiments for aerial resources all categorically prove that it is impossible to subjectively predict whether or not you have found anyone in that area - unless you systematically cover every inch (something way outside the resources available at any real search). Although no empirical data exists to prove this, I believe that this fact holds for dog search too - and I would add that the assessment results probably back this up.

All any handler can assure the search manager is that they have searched the area to the best of their ability based upon the environment and the conditions. The search manager would then have to judge whether the area should be re-searched (based upon the likelihood of the misper being there and search efforts already carried out, against whether resources would be better placed elsewhere.) All searchers should expect areas they have searched to be re-searched, and should expect to re-search areas already searched by other search resources.

Those of you who know me of past will know that I counsel against using words such as "covered" and especially "cleared" when describing the completion of search taskings. I firmly believe these words set up unrealistic expectations in the minds of both searchers and search managers as to the effectiveness of the actual search. Better just to use the word searched instead - which does not imply any particular result (positive or negative).

I would also add too, that search managers should take up any opportunity they can to work with the various dog teams. This should be part of their continuing professional development and would give them a much better insight into how best to use this search resource (and its limitations...)

[Mojo]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the last response. As I am relevatively new to the dog training and the dog world, so to speak, all these replies are aiding me to gain what knowledge I can from you all. I am determined to meet up with an active dog team and see for myself the resource they can provide for the search managers and more importantly the misper along with any limitations.

I was recently told that weather and time can affect a dog's ability to search and I suppose this is just the same as us as searchers. We all know time and weather distroys clues - but what I would like to know is how I can deploy a dog team to give them the best possible chance. I see the dog searching world, very new and to a degree quite scary. I am prepared for time and commitment and will aid to finance those in Cheshire that have been promised in the past but unfortunately let down.

To clear up the last confusion - the area was as dense as it could possibly be and if you view the ALSAR misper stats for this particular search it will obviously show you more info than I can submit on a live forum.

I really appreicate everyone's comments and Thank you - it may take me a while yet but I am keen to learn!

If we don't have a scent object for the search dog - how does the dog search and what does it search for?

Cheers Mojo x

[tony & spud]

Hi Mojo,

Personally I can see no point in 'biggin-up' the Dog Team.......one only sets oneself up for a fall!

I attended my first 'live' call-out yesterday , in a largely residential area. Seamus and I put our dogs through what little 'greenery' there was after which we were quite happy to tell the Polsa that in all honesty the dogs could be of no further help within the prescribed Search Area, and we were duly stood down.

I would imagine this is the norm but those with more experience may know otherwise

Best

TB

[Daryl]

This might be worth a read - http://101-dog-training-tips.com/Behavior/dog_aggression.shtml