cadaver scent training... questions!

[jenny6165]

I decided to start a new thread here. I was reading Daryls threads and alerts on Cadaver scents and the more i read over it the more i began to frown with confusion. So I wonder if someone can answer my question because im intrigued.

My big question at the moment, is how is the cadaver scent trained in the first place? Is it being trained in the same way we are training the live scent (i'm thinking not) or is it trained in the same way as training a drugs dog (this is what im thinking) but then i could be thinking it all backwards because its obv very different and i cant quite get my head around which method it specifically used here since if we are finding a dead person, this will be out in terrain, whereas drugs is usually more enclosed, thus the re-find isnt part of the training. right? But then, im thinking that maybe its a mixture of both.

Sorry if none of that made any sense.

Here's why im confused, i did some training previously on techniques both used to find live people and drugs/explosives. Both types of training were very different. However, we never trained a refind. With the search for people, the dog would go out off lead and alert (bark) with the handler following the bark. With the search for drugs, the dog was on a lead and was directed where to search and would alert in whichever way came natural to the dog, which would be digging, barking or a lie down for example.

So you can see where im confused now because you are obviously training a refind on a cadaver scent because the purpose is to find a dead person right? But as its trained on the pseudo scent, am i right in thinking its trained in the same manner as the drugs detection, but adding a refind?

Ok ive totally confused myself and im sure the answer is going to be something like neither!

[Pete]

he he he,

It is a trained using a mix of several methods (dependant on how the dog reacts).

For example I trained Sox using the following:

1. Place the scent source in a container so she could not actually get to it and threw it into long grass.
2. Command her to search for it (being a collie her hunt and prey drives are quite high) and wait for her to identify where it was.
3. Command the alert, in her case a sit.
4. Moving in beind her wait until she looked at it then throw a ball directly at the scent source producing the illusion that the reward came from the scent source as she was staring at it.
5. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

In the end she is made to believe that by looking at the scent source she can make a ball appear, unfortunatey she's a little too smart and now knows where the ball comes from. However she still stares as the indication as she knows this is how to tell me.

Due to the proximity the dog works to the handler (off lead) a refind is not required.

With regards to the scent source I trained using pig as thisis what is stated in the relevant ACPO document, Pseudo Scent is not recognised.

Pete.

[Daryl]

I'm not training a refind in this case, however I wanted to see what would happen if I walked away from an alert - he came and did a refind naturally. (Smart Ar55!)

[jenny6165]

ah ha. ok. thanks for that. i was confused for ages with that one.
So its alot like the drugs detection work, but as you say, with a mixture of the search technique.

[Mojo]

Pete,

Is it best to wait till the dog & handler qualify to Level 3 prior totraining in this area of speciality? or is it worth it from the word go?

Just thinking out loud

Mojo

[Pete]

I would say that if the dog is only going to be used for VR then start at this, if you want a versatile dog that can be used in many aspects then after L3.

Pete.

[Daryl]

something that we have identified is that its not necessarily the calibre of the dog but more the calibre of the handler that needs assessing!

[Pete]

I think it should be remembered that due to recent events, volunteer VR dogs will not be widely used by Police forces. An airscenting search dog trained to indicate on cadaver material (not of forensic size) however could be of use to Police forces.

Pete.

[Mojo]

I just wanted clarification as its a contraversal subject - as is training a dog

I just thought out loud as I would'nt want to confuse a dog by doing mutliple training techniques and methods, and lose any trust or training that may have or have not been there?

But thanks again

Mojo x

Edit x1 - yet again spelling

[Clare]

I think it should be remembered that due to recent events, volunteer VR dogs will not be widely used by Police forces. An airscenting search dog trained to indicate on cadaver material (not of forensic size) however could be of use to Police forces.

Pete.

Hi all,
having just read the above, I'm a bit disheartened about continuing with my dog's VR training - there's no point me doing it if he won't be used.

Thoughts please,

Clare (and Ben)