Info Desperately Needed!!! - How do we callout LSDogs?

[Mojo]

Another question for you - sorry

How do we, as a S&R Team, call-out a LSDogs Team???

And are there set protocol's for us to go through first, i.e. closest team, available team, sponsoring team, team you can trust, etc, etc, etc.

In Cheshire, our Polsa's seem protective of who we call-out to assist, therefore if our closest team is deemed as inappropriate to the Polsa, is this acceptable? Normally we are asked if we have experience working with an assisting team, i.e. Staff's LSART, BMRT, etc. If this answer is yes, we recommend a team, does this still apply with LSDogs?

From a Management point of view, I would ask/request for an experienced Team Leader/Search Manager from the assisting team to work alongside Search Manager's and I know I'd be entirely grateful if they could provide input. Is this also acceptable?

I know, so many questions with only 24hrs in a day and 7 days in the week.

Cheers

Mojo x

(PS - On our team wish list, I've requested an 8 day week!!! )

[Robert Bradley]

I'll have a stab at some of these -

With regard to PolSAs being protective about who is called in to assist; it is important to always remember that the police have the statutory role in this and that they will take all the flak if things go wrong. Once a good working relationship has built up between search managers/controllers and PolSAs, the police might well look to the expertise of the search coordinator in providing advice as to who to call in to assist. In the meantime, or actually whenever, if they do not want to use a particular resource or team then that is up to them and you can only advise them on what you feel is appropriate. [On that note, if you do ever advise a certain course of action and the PolSA decides against it, make sure that that is written down in your search paperwork/log and his/her reasons - it is good practice, a good learning tool and covers your back a little too - although be careful not to damage your relationship whilst doing this, because that relationship is most important when doing the best thing for the misper.]

On the search management side - it is always acceptable to ask for input/advice/assistance from anyone you feel is able to assist. For a long time I have been pushing for search management "teams" running searches, rather than an individual. The make-up of this team is entirely up to the team/search manager involved but should draw upon the skills that are available.

However, that said, I personally would be reluctant to ask for a LSDogs member to support in control - unless you have either a)spare LSDogs people floating around or b)a very large scale search going on. This is not putting down any LSDogs member - there is a massive amount of skill and expertise available within these teams. However, the individual dog handlers should be able to give you any information you need as to appropriate areas to search and their requirements and so, in my mind, there is little requirement to take anyone away from the search effort. That said, if you feel you need additional support in using dogs for any reason - maybe the best option would be to have someone alongside you during an exercise to advise you. You would then get a better feel for what dogs can/can't do and when to use them, or not, as the case may be.

I was interested to hear you note on the other topic that there were misunderstandings between ALSAR and LSDogs. If there are these do need to be sorted - I'd be grateful if you could let me know privately what you feel these are and hopefully they can be resolved.

[Mojo]

Hi Rob,

Thanks very much for your imput. Your 'teams' in Control sounds a very good idea indeed, may give that a try on the next full-scale exercise we have running. Food for thought.

My reasoning behind the LSDogs member, is probably due to my lack of understanding of a full working dog rather than anything else. That's being very honest! I was one of those people who chose not to use/acknowledge the ability of dogs within a search, but I gave it a chance and wanted to be educated, hence me now trying to handle one of the dogs on our team. (Sorry, that was my personal thought's before being educated!)

Our Polsa-Team relationship works on a very much trust scale as do they all, but the recent relationship built up (over the last 12months+) remains really positive. One of the Polsa called early hours a few weeks ago, and I quote, "leave your PJ's on, change your slippers, we'll meet you at ......... half an hour ago. The kettle will be on so just turn up and get dressed here!" Hence my last post. They will ask us who we have experience working with and if that's not our closest team, is that acceptable?

We seem to be developing slowly, maybe it's a reassurance factor with the LSDogs member in Control more than anything else?? Honesty box has definitely been opened

Thank you Rob

Mojo

PS Email/PM?

[Pete]

Hi Jo,

Ordinarily if the Search manager is not overly knowledgable about dogs then they will ask the handler where is suitable to search and makes the most use of their dog.

Frequently you will find that the first handler on-scene will liase with the manager in recommending other sectors for subsequent teams to be ready on their arrival, therefore saving alot of time.

I would have to agree with Rob that as there are precious few dog teams around, to have one in control would not really make the best use of the resource. That said as you become more and more involved in training and eventually qualifying dogs then your knowledge will also increase.

Hope this helps alittle.

Pete.

[Daryl]

Mojo

LSDogs had a national callout policy. When you get a callout or standby you were to send a text to all teams (using the callout sms system) to gain the availability of all LSDogs teams. Then using this information you could decide which/how many resources to call upon.

However I believe this system has been altered (back to what we used to do) where you only need to callout/put on standby your nearest unit. However in Berkshire we still put all unit on standby as we don't know how the search might alter as the search progresses.

More often than not, the more dogs/resources the better - the quicker the search can be completed and the sooner the MISPER can be located.

With regard to search management I believe that there can be advantages to have a K9 SAR Manager in control, especially if your are lucky enough to have a SAR Controller or Bangor SAR Manager in your team like we do. However I also agree with Rob that a dog handler should have enough knowledge to be able to discuss with the SAR manager how they might best be utilised. I know that many of the searches that I attend I tend to get my own briefing and get asked for my opinions with regard to managing K9 resources.

At the end of the day your police force have primacy and what they say goes, so if they would like a handler in control, they will get a handler in control etc

[Mojo]

Yet again thank you for your post's.

Fingers crossed with time and with experience, maybe my insecurities will settle.

Just to annoy you even more - who do I call upon in the first stages of a call-out?

Sorry, I'd rather ask, than never know?

Mojo x

[Daryl]

MSN'd you

[Mojo]

Thanks Daryl,

Msg rec'd and understood

What happen's if a dog bite's whilst on training or on a search? Can it ever happen and what is the protocol if it does? Are there certain breeds where it is within their temperment or are they taught?

Mike, if we are working with Police dogs what is the drill if they come up to you? Or are the search dogs different to the dogs that make loads of noise and jump up and bite? (Umm lack of knowledge is definitively showing here - sorry)

(It's not happened, I was just pondering!)

Mojo x

[Daryl]

To the best of my knowledge there is a zero aggression policy within LSDogs - will have to check the paperwork - having said that there are different things that can be perceived as a bite i.e. some puppies mouth, but don't actually bite.

[lou]

There is indeed a policy within LSDogs about zero agression.

I would hope individual units would monitor this frequently but the types of dogs that do well at SAR work tend to be quite friendly dogs by thier very nature so i wouldnt worry yourself too much.

That said of course it doesnt mean it wont ever happen but then you can never guarantee that.

Lou x